Cancel your Orange contract - official statement from Ofcom

10 August 2009

UPDATE: Orange has now scrapped the ToS change following consumer upset and cancellations. Read full update and official statement here.

As promised, an update on our requests for statements from both Orange and Ofcom. So far, the service provider have told us they are "looking into it", but the regulator has been in touch. All of you who commented that Orange representatives told you Ofcom had approved the changes to their Terms of Service? That appears to have been a bare-faced lie. This is what an Ofcom spokesperson told Bitterwallet this afternoon:

I’ve looked into this and can confirm that Ofcom hasn’t approved any changes that Orange has made to its prices. We are in fact now talking to Orange to stop their customer service advisors from telling that to consumers.

This is where we are on it. General Condition 9.3 is one of the rules that all communications providers have to adhere to. Orange can charge for 087 numbers but if it makes changes to customers’ contracts it has to comply with GC9.3 which says:

GC 9.3 Where the Communications Provider intends to modify a condition in a contract with a Consumer which is likely to be of material detriment to the Consumer, the Communications Provider shall:

(a) provide the Consumer with at least one month’s notice of its intention detailing the proposed modification; and

(b) inform the Consumer of the ability to terminate the contract without penalty if the proposed modification is not acceptable to the Consumer.

Ofcom has not made any ruling on whether the current alteration to the charges are of material detriment, such a determination would be the result of an investigation.

We’re monitoring the complaints we’re receiving at the moment to decide whether to open an investigation into this. In the mean time, if a consumer wants to terminate their contract and are unable to, we advise them to follow the usual complaints procedure. This is set out in this booklet here: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/advice/guides/complain.pdf.

TOPICS:   Mobile

145 comments

  • lee
    Finally getting somewhere with orange - however..... The chap I'm speaking to now - is now saying it's only "0870" numbers what are increasing.... I've tried searching for a detailed price increase list - but no luck... anyone have a link ?
  • Cancel B.
    [...] UPDATE 10/8: Ofcom have now responded to Bitterwallet’s request for a statement on the current situation. You can read it here. [...]
  • deejayone
    Excellent - well done again Bitter Wallet. The #badorange hashtagging on Twitter continues...
  • deejayone
    (By the way, the PDF link appears to be broken - it's missing the last 'f' off the link.)
  • Dai
    I think that the distribution of price increases via text linking to a mobile webpage only is disingenuous to say the least. They send us a bill every month, why didn't they mention these changes on that? (complained last Tuesday, nervously awaiting my PAC)
  • Chris G.
    @ lee 0870 are going up...so are data charges (to 60p/min outside allowence) and flat rate charges to mobiles and landlines to 14.7p/min. I think they used to be something closer to 5p. if thats not to my detrement i dont know what is.
  • Chris G.
    btw, i got my PAC code, but if ofcom return in favour of orange am i going to be charged the remainder of my contract to get out?
  • Paul S.
    @deejayone - fixed, cheers!
  • deejayone
    @Paul Smith - still broken mate - the link behind is still missing the 'f'. :-)
  • Steve
    Someone called Lyn just informed me that Ofcom must of made a mistake, as their legal team informed all CS Operatives thismorning that they were cleared in their actions, after i read out that statement. .. lol
  • lee
    Mine has now been cancelled after I edited the letter and called them... argued with me... but stood ground and it's done :) Good Luck guys.
  • TV's B.
    This just gets better and better. The more orange deny it, the more publicity it gets, and the more people will cancel. Dickheads.
  • Ian
    Found this on CICAS web site , may be of interest. CISAS case studies Issue 11 February 2008 Case 05 Contract termination: price increase is a change C was given notice of increased charges by T. C made several attempts to end his mobile phone contracts but T did not respond. T denied that the increased charges constituted a change to the contract between C and T justifying termination. T had no record of receiving C’s four letters, two of which were delivered by recorded delivery The Adjudicator found a price increase is a material change to the detriment of C allowing C to terminate the contracts. On the balance of probabilities T had received the letters from C. T was ordered to refund C all monthly sums paid since the first attempt to terminate the contracts. T is the service provider, C is the customer
  • siver
    Just canceled mine in 2 mins no fuss.. hadnt gone over my mins either just quoted 087 going up by 300%.. Good Luck
  • CompactDistance
    It's obvious Orange are being awkward just to influence the easily misled into not pursuing their cancellation request. Will Ofcom do the right thing and give them a hefty penalty for this obvious dishonest cowboy tactic? Will they hell
  • deejayone
    Reports are coming in that Oranges 'legal team' have this afternoon changed the 'criteria' of who is 'eligible' and they are now allowing people to cancel. (Horrible uses of terminology - all coming from Orange).
  • Hydromancer
    just talked to orange and argues with them...apparently I still can't cancel if I haven't used my bundle minutes
  • andy y.
    I think you guys have come of age.Quality work...well done.
  • lee
    For those who still get refused... Don't get angry, be polite with them - find out if they'll let you cancel... If not - call back. It's all about who you speak to. :)
  • James C.
    # i just called again the person on the phone told me orange did not have to cancel my contract the woman on the phone said she agreed with me that i should be allowed to but that my account had been marked by a supervisor not to cancel? she told me i would have to pay £350 point for the contract to be terminated she also told me that ofcom are just a regulatory body and they have no say over what way orange conduct their buisness. ofcom told me to contact cisas and when i told orange this the csr was pretty smug and said by the time they get back to u it will be too late for ur contract to be cancelled anyway. so its safe to say that imm more than a bit annoyed. they are taking a judgment on my account over the three months ive been of university as soon as i go back i will be over my minutes and phoning my bank and now because o these charges it will cost me more money. does anyone kno of any1 else that can be contacted to complain about this? also are they allowed to “mark” my account
  • Wilko
    Just been back on to Orange again - they are absolutely and resolutely not allowing me to cancel. Word has "come down from our legal team" according Orange Drone number 116 (Rory), that only users who go over their monthly bundles will be allowed to cancel, even though, as discussed elsewhere, everyone else's right to go over their minutes has been compromised by the increase in call charges. Rory also said they are doing this to shut the loop hole which has "led to most customers just trying to get a new phone on a new contract." I've written now to Orange but don't hold out much hope, unless Ofcom actually do something direct about this themselves, on behalf of the consumer. They are supposed to be the regulator aren't they? Why aren't they regulating?!
  • gurry
    The CEO section is now closed - they are 9-5 ers. Ive been passed to the insurance dept!! who have emailed someone in retentions but as Ive been waiting since 1pm for a call back I wont hold my break. When I had a chat with someone in retentions today they said that as 4.3.1 states they can increase inline with retail price index and none of my last bills would have incurred an increase of more than 4.7% i dont qualify under the 4.3 clause and should read my contract fully and understand it beforeI sign up next time. what a nice guy....not. he also noted my file to say i dont qualify. Im on hold again with retentions as i type!!
  • Wilko
    Yeah they seem to mark your account, so the next time you call back the operator knows you've already been on to them, which I suspect means they're even less likely to listen. Anyway, well done to anyone who got theirs cancelled - I'm going to have to go the ombudsman route now...!
  • James C.
    what is the ombudsman route i would also like to go that way
  • Ian
    What do they think is going to happen with all these people they won't let go, some would have gone back to orange on a new contract but now I think everybody will walk as soon as their contract is up and never come back!
  • someone
    called again...and the man on the other end basically said that he had looked at what people on bitterwallet and money supermarket are discussing and that my account was marked again and that the answer will not change if I called again.
  • Podge
    Just tried and cacelled first time. Tried to fob me off that the changes didn't affect me but insisted that they did. He went off and checked my bills and said I was eligable so am now on a £14 retention contract. Sorry not more info but I think its luck of the draw as who you speak to first time.
  • RATTY
    Anybody been to WATCHDOG yet? If so what was said?
  • deejayone
    Unfortunately Watchdog is off-air at the moment (and changing production teams as they are changing formats for their next series in the Autumn), so they ar eprobably not much use. Convenient timing to pee-off all your customers by Orange, I'd say. Still using the #badorange hashtag on Twitter to highlight this issue: http://search.twitter.com/search?q=%23badorange
  • James C.
    i contacted watchdong but as of yet have had no reply
  • Dai
    @someone yes, damn those evil websites with people discussing their contractual rights! Very poor, Orange, very poor...
  • Charles K.
    I have rang 0800 numbers in the last three months so am ringing to see what happens....
  • robbo
    i contacted orange last night and was told i couldnt cancel. thinking of going the ofcom route.
  • Charles K.
    Very helpful bloke, He is telling me the charge needs to exceed about 50p a month and I didn't make it - however he was giving me £20 off. Now I could have argued the toss but my contract finishes next month anyway....
  • Juliet
    Called earlier & was told by a very rude man that there was NO WAY they would ever cancel my contract without a fee. Just called again, spoke to a lovely girl who cancelled it within 5 minutes. Brilliant!
  • Robert
    UPDATE ORANGE LEGAL TEAM HAVE NOW CHANGED THEIR STANCE ON THIS AND HAVE DECIDED THAT WE NOW HAVE THE RIGHT TO CANCEL!
  • Aamir
    @Robert - If this is true for everyone then this really is fantastic news.
  • Georgie
    @Robert,are you serious? I tried with a guy yesterday but he was having absolutely none of it. He was so rude. So I rang ofcom,rang back Orange (was told they'd ring me,but haven't),and I've sent a letter of complaint to Orange CS. But if what you say is accurate,Robert,then I can just ring back and get it cancelled?
  • Aamir
    @Georgie I'd give it a few hours until something is actually confirmed or something, else they'll just keep putting notes on your account saying that you keep trying to cancel. :)
  • robbo
    just rang orange again and hey presto. cancelled it there and then.
  • Georgie
    Ah good idea. Will try first thing tomorrow,methinks :)
  • Mike
    when did the change in t&c come into force?
  • Aamir
    @robbo Brilliant. :D
  • Stuart
    Orange just called *ME* ( i origionally escalated to management after hours of arguing) and tried to offer me more minutes for less money so that I don't cancel. I would certainly say their stance has changed :)
  • Gooney
    can i cancel if i took out a contract 3 weeks ago??
  • James C.
    does any1 know what the new official stance is? cos im fed up arguing with random ppl
  • Georgie
    I think they'll either have to let us go or surely if we progress to take legal action against them or whatever it'll cost them a bomb load?
  • Mike U.
    hey who can cancel? i'm very new to orange too... when did they change the terms?
  • Hugh J.
    Mike Unt - seriously?
  • Mike U.
    i'm serious... who can cancel?
  • Georgie
    I think the terms are being changed in September,but in order to cancel your contract you have to ask them to do so before the terms and conditions start being applied.
  • SK
    Can those who haven't received a text cancel? I tried on 2 previous occasions, but in vain. Was told that unless I receive a text, I can't cancel. Any advice appreciated.
  • Georgie
    I've not had a text either but that wasn't even discussed when I tried to cancel. I think you can cancel (in theory) if they even mention it during the phonecall,which they will (obviously).
  • Aamir
    @Georgie and SK Yeh if you can get them to admit they're changing the tariffs then you should be able to cancel really, regardless of receiving a text or not, but they're not really playing by the rules at the moment.
  • SK
    Thanks, Aamir and Georgie.
  • Georgie
    @Aamir,you're telling me. The guy I spoke to yesterday was such a liar and really rude and mean. I tried to stand my ground but he was seriously just going to hang up on me. I ended up accepting some £20 thing he offered me. I hope this doesn't mean I can't cancel now?
  • Aamir
    I'm not too sure on that actually, I do hope not though, for your sake :P
  • Georgie
    I'm scared now :| I hope I haven't show myself in the foot.
  • Georgie
    *shot
  • Aamir
    If you try and cancel again and they say you can't because you agreed to a better deal or something just say it wasn't made clear I guess.
  • Georgie
    I'll just have to see what happens I suppose.
  • Lewis R.
    Just wanted to say that I haven't forgotten about getting advice from my consumer law colleague on this matter and will try and get any information I receive to Bitterwallet as soon as I get any info from her. I'm not a lawyer but as far as I can tell, Orange don't have a legal leg to stand on and the more they dig their heels in, the more publicity this will get and the more customers will cancel... keep it up Orange.
  • Harry
    Having been told I couldnt cancel at lunch time I havr just rung again and this time no problem. Contrct terminated at the end of the month. I feel kind of sorry for them because they have always been very good to me.
  • bw
    i cancelled within last hour took 2 calls but 1st one ended due to disagreement re recording converstion 2nd one was fine and moved to sim only now. was 5 months into 18month contract. I think they have decided to let people who can cancel do so. She was on overtime so i think they are busy Personally i am happy to get something back for the mess i had with my broadband last year
  • Scotty
    What do you mean people who can cancel? they wont let me due to not using minutes but iwas charged over 5 pound for internet usage last month so surely if the charge is going up i should qualify?
  • Mattdarko
    I'd love to say it's as easy as just perservering and i'd love to say that Orange are now letting anyone cancel. But they are'nt. So far i've called 5 times and i've been told the same thing each time ' "As you havent consistently called 08 or 087 numbers in the past 3 months you are not eligible to cancel." I've battled and battled, quoted clauses, rang Ofcom and gained advice and a reference number, rang the executive escalations team and nothing.... My only option left it seems is to contact CISAS (Orange ombudsman?) and state that there has been a breach in my T's and C's and that they have made changes I didnt agree too. It's such a p**s take though - I just want it cancelled Any further advice would be greatly appreciated...
  • ema
    i hate orange! .. they all lie try and blag yuu with everything they have got!.. spoken to 5 people now, been put on hold for hours! and got no where. tried everything above etc, all their excuse is, is there is a clause in the contract about going up a certain %, and because i havent gone over my call charges in last 3 bills!..
  • Karen
    Have spent the whole evening with my daughter trying to cancel her contract. Orange will just not listen and say that as her last three months have not gone over she can not cancel (they should check some of her previous bills)!. Apparently it it doesn't count that she mmay wish to go over and proabably will on past history. We have quoted all the things recommended but to no avail. One very rude lady said that it was alright for us to quote the t&c's but we should read our contract properly. Got through to a really nice lady in CEO but she said we couldn't cancel either. Just getting really annoyed. They even said the info on bitter wallet was wrong any anyone could post the info and they even denied that an Orange spokesperson had given a statement about the increase unless we could produce a name. It seems to be denial and fobbing off the whole way, although one lad said that they are absolutely swamped with calls. The orange staff are very rude and just do not seem to know what they are talking about. Tomorrow we are going going to contact OFCOM but if they refer us back to Orange I think we will be unlucky. Any other suggestions- polite answers only!!- will be gratefullty received.
  • Happy:)
    My other half is on the phone to them now. The guy said we can cancel as I do go over my allowances because I call my gas & electric companies - and they're them numbers (0845) that are affected. And because I use the internet on my phone. If I had of rung, it'd probably be a different story! But both our contracts are in his name anyway so he had too. He's being transferred to the termination team who will apparently try amazing offers to keep us, but we don't want it. 14.9p is not what I want to call my gas company!! Rather just have a cheaper landline put in! I hope people manage to sort theirs. We were panicing about ours being hard, and it was really easy. Hope you all get it better x
  • Simon
    heres my story - i was told i couldnt cancel unless i received the text...i got the text today, called and they then said "youve not gone over ur mins in the last 3months - u are not able to cancel" no matter what i quoted she just said no- untill i asked to speak to a manager who was not able to talk to me.. i was also told if i asked to speak to a manager again she would cease the call... rude, pointlessly over aggressive woman... i called the ceo office and made a formal complaint- someone will ring me 2morrow to help with it....not holding my breath there tho! i was thinking of re connecting with orange as they have been really good up untill now - but because of the run around ive been given they can kiss my monthly line rental good bye!! Simon
  • Michael
    Laughing got mine cancelled around 4 o clock this afternoon after i had just posted the letter to orange customer services. Had called about 10 times over the weekend and eventually had someone who stated that they were going to call me back. Mark i think his name was nice lad!! Didnt hold my breath of this situation. as i was old i was on different ts&cs old ones and he was unsure as to weather i would be affected. I told him that if this was the case then i would want it in writing that if i did go over my bundle of 400mins after the 14th of september i wouldnt be charged the new rates, i also asked for a copy of my ts&cs. he said he would find out but it may take a day so 6stated that he would call me back by 4 o clock the next day. I still phoned orange around dinner time today and received the same response that i didnt go outside my bundle and would not be affected, so i sent the emails and the letter from this website. noticed at 4 then that i had a voicemail from mark and to phone them agiain and ask the operator to read my notes from mark, did this and was told i was eligable to cancel bargin!! PAYG sim in the post but will be charged up to the 9th of sept due to the 30 day notice, 8 months left on my deal too - Definatly getting the iphone 3g-s now!!! :-)
  • Michael
    Sorry forgot to say thanks to everyone at Bitter Wallet who has made this possible top quality site which i have already added to my favourates!!!!
  • Steve
    Does anyone know if business users on Solo contracts are affected in any way??
  • Superjutah
    Michael if you want an Iphone 3GS come speak 2 me at o2 and I might be able to sort you out?
  • jonboy50
    I have received a demand for payment from solicitors for orange for one month payment of 17.99 from year 2006!! I had already written to orange in 2006 as asked to do by csr explaing i had no access to internet for two months due to lighting strike and asked for 2month credit - Never heard a thing until NOW! phoned solicitors who offered to reduce to 13.50 ? spoke to very rude and un helpful Orange csr Nicky who was unmovable even rude sayin YOU WILL PAY THIS!! not have to! They are making a serious mistake treating customers like this and now understand how people feel so strong about orange customer NON service. I was in the wrong cancelling direct debit for last month but I was fed up not gettin a service from them as i needed a new box
  • Michael
    Took out an Orange contract 3 days ago. Blackberry Curve 400min, unlim text for £25 a month. Only sent a couple text messages so far.. I can cancel under the cooling off period, but wouldn't it be nice if I could cancel and keep the phone :D
  • stephen
    i took one out on the 30th of last month could i do the same & keep the phone?
  • Jon G.
    You guys are a joke, its one thing to cancel a contract because its been changed from what you originally agreed to. But you guys are just trying to profit by getting a free phone and trying to hurt a company in a time of economic unrest. If you signed up to an orange phone after June 09 the changes were already in your contract anyway, so you cant cancel. Thanks goodness
  • Si
    I spend over an hour on the phone to 3 different reps. the first refused straight away an was quite rude. claiming it wasnt part of the contract. The second was even ruder his name was Tony an told me to 'Fuck Off' as i was putting the phone down. To which I have made a formal complaint about. The third which was a lovely woman refused so I asked to speak to a supervisor who then said he looked through my account an noticed i had made calls to some of the numbers that are getting changes and agreed it was my right to cancel basically I argued that General Condition 9.3 is one of the rules that all communications providers have to adhere to. Orange can charge for 087 numbers but if it makes changes to customers’ contracts it has to comply with GC9.3 which says: GC 9.3 Where the Communications Provider intends to modify a condition in a contract with a Consumer which is likely to be of material detriment to the Consumer, the Communications Provider shall: (a) provide the Consumer with at least one month’s notice of its intention detailing the proposed modification; and (b) inform the Consumer of the ability to terminate the contract without penalty if the proposed modification is not acceptable to the Consumer. And also although I dont go over the minutes that i use it is my right to, an orange have changed the terms therefore changing my orginal contract with orange. Hope it helps some people
  • Michael
    Superjutah - What deals can you offer me on the IPhone 3G-s? Currently looking at the options Thanks
  • chrisg.
    I almost wish I was back on Orange again*, I love the consumer fight! *I've never forgiven them for ditching wildfire.
  • Martha F.
    Superjutah, yeah me too, what kind of offers? I love the iPhone, it will go nicely with my Audi/BMW and i'll use it whilst I'm driving to show everyone how great I am.
  • Northerngeezer
    Just had a phone call back from Steve from the CEO department who said that he was putting me through to someone in the retentions department who will explain the situation to me. "Oh no" here we go again I thought but to my surprise a guy called Lee just simply explained that he was terminating my contract as of tomorrow and gave me a cancellation reference No. He couldn't believe how many times I'd been knocked back. Thanks to everyone on this thread and the guys over on MSE
  • Linz
    If you've got the capability, start recording the calls. I'm sure Orange would just love more bad publicity when the audio files of their CS reps lying make their way on to the interweb.
  • Glen
    Have just called and got the response of many...I do not go over my minutes/texts so i will not lose out. Made the argument that it was my right to do so and he said the "Legal Department" have decreed the changes. Pointed out that to change a contract within a contract cannot be "Legal" - No response. Told to write a letter. Very unhappy customer!!!
  • bawbag
    About 50% of all you complaining bastards are trying to weasel out of your contract just to keep the phone. Idiots.
  • RATTY
    And your point is Bawbag?
  • mrmeshi
    @bawbag yeah, what's your point?
  • gravy
    I wonder if, at the end of all this, if it'd be cheaper to just not change the tariff. Serves them right - maybe they'll think about this the next time they think of hiking up the prices.
  • Dai
    @gravy That's what I reckon they will end up doing - this is going to go viral and trash their reputation otherwise.
  • yipadee d.
    Just come across this - called orange cancelled contract- 4 months into a 18 month contract. I smashed the phone after about 3 weeks of taking it out and orange wouldn't help me one bit . I also got about £100 cashback via quidco as well for taking this contract. Anyway, when I called, he looked at my calls and said because i had made several calls to 08 numbers I was eligible to cancel - Get in! Cancelled from tommorrow! Does anybody know and good phone deals?
  • Ben
    Sorry, a long story but I thought some people might like to read it and take hope that you can all get yours canceled if you try enough :) Well. I have managed to cancel 2 contracts now. One I have had for a couple of years. Canceled that on Friday with no issues at all, took all of 30 seconds. The second one I have only had since June 29th 2009 and I waited until yesterday (monday) to cancel (bad move should of done it Friday as would of been really easy! Anyway). Bad idea. I had major issues trying to cancel it. First person said no and was very rude. I called up a couple of hours later and the second bloke was really nice, confirmed that it could be canceled, put me on hold and spoke to retentions who said no I couldnt be as although they can see I regularly call 08 numbers I have not made enough (16) at less than a minute long so I did not qualify. He said I should write in a letter, which I did yesterday and sent recorded, stating that I wanted to cancel. I also sent a copy of that letter to the email addresses in a previous post on here. Then this morning I decided to call and try again. I spoke to a women who was not overly rude but not exactly polite. She said that they have put a note on my account to say that I was not eligible to cancel as I was told yesterday. I pointed out that they made note that I have made many calls but it happens that I have not made enough at less that a minute long within the last 3 months which was unacceptable and is not to say I will not make plenty more in future. She said she would try and speak to retentions but she did not think they would speak to me. So I was put on hold, again, she came back and said no because of the calls and because I had not received a text I was not eligible. So I then pulled surprise out the bag (@Linz I wrote this whole thing because of your post) I said to the CSR that I was told yesterday by someone that I was in fact eligible and legally that is as good as receiving a text message and that the call was recorded as I called from my work and we are a FSA regulated company so all calls are recorded. ;-). SUDDENLY people began to play ball. I was promptly put back on hold and transfered to the chap in retentions who tried to tell me that recording the calls without notifying them is illegal so I corrected him on that. And he went on to say that they have relaxed their criteria and I am now eligible to cancel. That was funny as I wasnt five minutes ago! But anyway, RESULT! :) So keep at it people, and if you can record the calls. Do it! It works! :) Orange are in the wrong here so dont take no for an answer!
  • Ben
    The only thing to add is that he has said it will be canceled in 30 days. Is that right? My first one is canceled already. Why would the other be 30 days??
  • Georgie
    I rang the special number I got given from someone at Ofcom yesterday and said that someone would ring me back yesterday. They didn't. I rang again later that day for a woman to tell me my case was being "reviewed". Still no word from them,and it's been over a day. I've sent a letter to the complaints dept. and I'm completely fired up for if I need to argue with anymore cocky CSRs,BUT...do you think it's more beneficial to see if they do ever get back to me or should I keep harassing them until they talk? Your opinions would be most valued :)
  • Martha F.
    I agree with bawbag, (even though he is a twat a times) people are worming out of their contracts just for the sake of it. They're bored with their 10 minute old phone or want an iPhone like their BMW/Audi driving dick of a mate. If you can't afford your contract, don't like your phone or the fact that your on an 18 month contract? WHY THE FUCK DID YOU TAKE IT OUT! You come on here complaining you can't cancel your contract? THAT'S WHAT A FUCKING CONTRACT IS! All you're doing is making it more expensive for those who thought about it as they'll need to increase tariffs to compensate. THAT'S BAWBAG'S FUCKING POINT, YOU FUCKING NUMPTIES !!!
  • Mark P.
    Has anyone managed to get theirs cancelled that hasn't made 0870 / 0800 calls?
  • RATTY
    My son made 1 0800 call, it was on his first bill in May, when I checked it they said he'd been on the call for over 30 mins! God only knows who he was ringing! Other than that no other 0870 or 0800 numbers were used. He had an 18 month contract, I've paid 3 bills, the direct debit is not active any more, if they want any more money out of me they can jump for it! :-D :-D :-D
  • Mark F.
    @Ratty Bad idea! Your now the one in breach or the T&C's of your contract. Not good for your credit score either!
  • Scott
    @Mark F To be honest Mark, after the ordeal I've been through, if they don't cancel it by Friday, after telling me they have, my direct debit to them will also be pulled. I'm sick and tired of this.
  • Karl
    I must of spent 3h+ on the phone to orange now, and Im not getting anywhere. I've been with them for the last 14 months and there is only 4 left on my contract. Anyway. I've stated that im legally entitled to cancel my contract due to Oranges T&C under 4.3, they say "no - because you havent gone over your minutes." depending on the operator it can be in the last 3-5 months. which makes me think something isnt right here.. Not only that, I literally read out OFCOMs GC 9.3 section about "inform the Consumer of the ability to terminate the contract without penalty if the proposed modification is not acceptable to the Consumer." Lady on the line Sharon Mitchell said "well OFCOM is just a governing body", to which I replied, "which you comply to correct?" "I'm sorry sir, but im not having a legal debate with you on the phone, your contract isnt going to be cancelled today - no matter how many times you ring." I've even said, "in your own terms and conditions under 4.3, if you change your t&c's and I refuse them I have the right to cancel my contract, have you changed your T&C's?" i've had "you dont go over your mins." "no comment." "we're allowed to change them." wtf am I supposed to do? I've emailed them, should I write too? they're not giving me any slack.
  • J
    @Martha.. at risk of repeating other people's points from earlier, no that isn't actually the issue. The issue is that Orange are increasing their call charges by 300% therefore adversly effecting their customers and then attempting to keep their customers locked into it. If you want to look at it another way, it's like Sky taking you on a 12 month contract, then after 2 months announcing that the agreed increase after the initial period won't actually be to £34 or whatever, but instead to £300. Before you and Bawbag start slagging everyone off, take the time to find out what is really happening, or are you an Orange CSR who's got fed up of having to toe the party line but is being swamped by people who don't like Orange's changes? Oh and for the record, yes there are some people on here who are after the quick return, but there are plenty others who just don't want to accept the increase in call charge and will therefore move to O2 or similar where the 0800 etc numbers are cheaper.
  • Martha F.
    J - I agree with you too, but the majority of people moaning on here just want to end their contract because they a) got themselves into shit, b) want a new phone, c) are bored with their contract, d) want the phone from the contract so they can go onto PAYG with a fancy phone without being locked into a contract. Most of these posts say that they do not qualify for cancelling as they do not call 0870 numbers this means that in most cases the price rise will not affect them. Therefore, I assume they are just trying to get out of their contract for the sake of it and becasue 'they can'. They are just jumping on the contract cancelling bandwagon, which is not on and is making it harder for those the the increases actually affect.
  • Jon
    Rang Orange last night at about 5.30pm, got through to some woman on the retentions department, I said a friend of mine had informed me of changes that all Orange Pay Monthly would be recieving in regards to their tariffs. Mentioned that i manage all my bills in my house, hence the need to call 0870 numbers. She said I used 260 minutes on average per month so I would not be affected. Also mentioned that I have not recieved this text and I was not eligble. I complained slightly saying I was quite irritated because Orange had no right to ammend the contract without my consent, and that if i stopped paying my bill I would be breaching my contract myself and Orange would take appropiate action against me, such as terminating my contract Then all of sudden she says it would affect me, and asked I wanted to cancel immediately. Got my PAK code sent out to me, and will be heading hastily to another network. Although I must point out that they will try to decieve you, make sure you read the troubleshooting guide carefully and read some of the comments posted on the site beforehand.
  • RATTY
    Posted by Mark F | August 11th, 2009 at 11:21 am @Ratty Bad idea! Your now the one in breach or the T&C’s of your contract. Not good for your credit score either! ________________________________________________________________________________________ @ Mark The contract was cancelled before the 3rd bill was due, my son racked up a £90 bill, he was on 600 mins and unlimited texts! I paid the bill by card. The reason for cancelling the direct debit was because I took the contract out in my name and was changing the direct debit to my sons bank after the first 2 months, I didnt get round to doing it because all this happened, sorry should have explained better, but will not be setting the direct debit up again in my bank or my sons bank. Orange were aware of the change I was going to make with the direct debit, infact, when I'd paid the bill by card I asked should I cancel the direct debit now, the Orange Man said sure, be sure your son calls us 10 days before the next bill is due to set up his direct debit.................then all this kicked off as I said!
  • bawbag
    I have no problem with people who are genuinely affected by increases, or feel that they may be in future - or even people who have had enough of poor customer service, connection issues etc etc. However, I do have a problem with people who have had their contracts for a FEW DAYS who are looking for a way to cancel and keep the phone. BW has actually done some real investigative journalism here (for a change) and certain aforementioned people are using this information, coupled with good feedback from other disgruntled customers to dodge out of their contracts. Websites like this are for empowering the consumer, not finding loopholes to dodge your responsibilites.
  • Mark F.
    I'm with you know Ratty, i do apologise.
  • Martha F.
    That's right bawbag, and most on here are abusing that. Most will be coming from HUKD so will be looking for a way to reduce the cost of their contract by getting a free phone to flog on fleBay.
  • dp
    @bawbag, @Martha Focker Fine, but this is 100% Orange's fault - they should have realised this would happen. Why not make the changes for new / renewed contracts only?? Their system can cope with different tariffs after all. And it won't really affect everybody else because it isn't *that* much money - the biggest consequence will be a small write-down in their annual profits. So the shareholders suffer and, if they lost enough, heads will roll on the board. They can't afford to raise prices in our super-competitive market anyway.
  • Tim
    ADVICE: I rand the fourth time just a second ago after studying my last 3 bills online, clearly pointed out I had rang a couple of 0800 number and he cancelled just like that. So be prepared, be polite and have all your bills in front of you and highlight any going over of your inclusive minutes. Hope that helps.
  • macapaca
    @bawbag "Websites like this are for empowering the consumer, not finding loopholes to dodge your responsibilites." Like companies have never tried to dodge their responsibilities? Time for a taste of their own medicine I say.
  • JP
    Companys like Orange who will argue the toss even if you do have a genuine problem deserve to get some hassle back. I have been with orange, vodaphone, o2 and t-mobile over the last 14 years (since mobiles started to get mibile). O2 and T-mobile had good customer advisers that helped when I needed. Vodaphone was a bit of a pain. Orange cancelled my contract in '96 after 2 months of having a phone from them and paying the bills, because I had failed a credit check! This was after I had finished my vodaphone contract and lost my number to move to them. (no number porting then). Apparently I wasn't a home owner (no bad credit & I employed 4 people). They were real stuck up arseholes when they first started. First time I went to then since was a couple years ago and was shocked by the way they advertised a £35 / month deal then charged vat on top which was never mentioned. Payingfor an itemised bill (no mention of that) takes the piss but now trying to say I have to pay for my normal bill unless I view it online really fucking annoys me. I have had numerous charges for crap that I didn't want and when speaking to customer services I found out about other things I would be charged for unless I asked not to be. They are the worst to get through to and the first to try to avoid dealing with a genuine problem you have. I would reckon over the last 2 years I have had at least £25 taken in charges that I never accrued. I have worked for myself since I was 21, have employed many people and had 4 business'. If I dealt with my customers the way they do I would be out of business. Get your free phone. Does anyone know if the letter I got with my last bill saying that they would charge me for my paper bill is also illegal and breaks the contract?
  • moaningminnie
    It would appear that most of people on here do not quite understand that ALL the networks charge the same rate for these calls and that in the past you have been getting cheaper calls with Orange as they did not increase theirs. There are some greedy individuals out there who are using this as an excuse to get out of their contracts only to get another one with the same network!!!! Do you not realise that you may fail a credit check, it will affect your credit rating and that any sort of reward you have built up in the past will be gone, all for what greed. It would also appear that you are making the lives of operatives for this company a nightmare by being awkward, argumentative and downright rude. shame on you all. show a bit of compassion.
  • Mark B.
    Hi All, Can someone confirm that 08457 numbers are included in this price increase? I have so far been told “this will not affect you”. In the past - although not in the past 3 months i have had to call my bank, which is an 08457 number and this has cost me and if included in the increase, will cost me even more going forward. I also had to call my bank yesterday too, if this number is included in the increase, will this count towards my argument for having my contract cancelled? Thanks all
  • Josh
    Just a piece of advice for you all, If you can, record the conversation. As soon as the CS rep picks up, inform them that, owing to numerous reports of CS reps being very rude and being dishonest and untruthful with customers, that you are recording the call. Then ask them to reconfirm their name, before stating why your calling. Under these circumstances, you'll almost certainly be put through to someone a lot more.... helpful.
  • Jay
    @ Josh can i just say it is illegal to record someone without there permission so if the csr does not give it you AREN'T ALLOWED!!!! Its a phone at the end of the day if your not going over your mins etc then why bother other netwrok charges are the same Orange has just moved in line with them! I'm staying with Orange as i'm nearly due an upgrade and will use my loaylty to get a better deal than i get anywhere else and the TG01 is only available with them!
  • moaningminnie
    @ Jay here here, there are bigger tradegies in the world than this, funny how we dont stop buying petrol when their prices go up.... hmmmm
  • steph
    jay- its not illegal to record without their permission, if u tell them at the start of the call u are recording it. it you do not, then it is illegal
  • steph
    petrol doesnt enter you into a contract does it? hmmmm i think not ... ?
  • moaningminnie
    @ Steph the principles are the same - costs go up and as per previous thread, the charges are the same elsewhere so why bother leaving a contract that has less time to run and start a new one that will tie you in even longer..., eerrrrr duhhhh!!
  • Josh
    My guy kept saying u have a legitimate contarct and these charges will not be execessive as i do not go over my minutes. I kept stating that I will be in future (going away 2 uni, no landline etc) and he sed we are basing on the last 3months. he kept ramblin some mumbo jumbo about the txt being sent tomake me aware of changes and that they will not affect me. Same old over n over, i lost my cool and hung up. What to try noww????
  • Jay
    @Steph They can release the call and not give permission to record it is up to them if they don't you have to stop! Its there legal rights! It is the same where i work we were told it is up to the individual wether permission is to be given- thank you!! Its like toysRus on here!!!!!!!
  • Dai
    @Jay it's like toysRus on here? No, it isn't. Orange have breached a contract. They have done so in order to make more money from their customers. They have not provided proper information regarding these changes and they are rude and uncooperative to those who may be disadvantaged by these changes and want to change or leave their contract. Even if you are perfectly happy with Orange, the fact that they would try to do something like this to their customers should make you think seriously about leaving. This is dreadful customer relations practice! Orange's reputation has been deservedly tarnished by these events.
  • JP
    @ moaningminnie So what if Orange had cheaper calls before. That's called getting the best deal. It still doesn't give them the right to change the contract. My credit rating was perfect at that check. They only wanted home owners though. It only gets effected if you get several checks and refusals in say a quarters period, not once. I'm also over my contract period anyway but it's the principal as much as the money. This company has been rude and annoying in many ways in the past and deserve a kick (albeit from they're own doing). They annoy us so do it back. Call centre operatives know what they are in for when they take the job and for them to just lie to you and then get annoyed is tough. I think someone who has been refused a few times should ring and say 'show some compassion', and see what response they get.
  • JP
    @ Jay Are yo saying that a consumer can say stop recording also?
  • deejayone
    From: http://www.ofcom.org.uk/static/archive/oftel/consumer/advice/faqs/prvfaq3.htm ----- Can I record telephone conversations on my home phone? Yes. The relevant law, RIPA, does not prohibit individuals from recording their own communications provided that the recording is for their own use. Recording or monitoring are only prohibited where some of the contents of the communication - which can be a phone conversation or an e-mail - are made available to a third party, ie someone who was neither the caller or sender nor the intended recipient of the original communication. For further information see the Home Office website where RIPA is posted. ----- Do I have to let people know that I intend to record their telephone conversations with me? No, provided you are not intending to make the contents of the communication available to a third party. If you are you will need the consent of the person you are recording. ----- Can a business or other organisation record or monitor my phone calls or e-mail correspondence with them? Yes they can, but only in a limited set of circumstances relevant for that business which have been defined by the LBP Regulations. The main ones are: * to provide evidence of a business transaction * to ensure that a business complies with regulatory procedures * to see that quality standards or targets are being met in the interests of national security * to prevent or detect crime to investigate the unauthorised use of a telecom system * to secure the effective operation of the telecom system. In addition, businesses can monitor, but not record, phone calls or e-mails that have been received to see whether they are relevant to the business (ie open an employee's voicemail or mailbox systems while they are away to see if there are any business communications stored there). For further information see the DTI website where the LBP Regulations are posted. However any interception of employees' communications must be proportionate and in accordance with Data Protection principles. The Information Commissioner has published a Data Protection Code on "Monitoring at Work" available on its website here. The Code is designed to help employers comply with the legal requirements of Data Protection Act 1988. Any enforcement action would be based on a failure to meet the requirements of the act - however relevant parts of the Code are likely to be cited in connection with any enforcement action relating to the processing of personal information in the employment context. Accordingly this Code of Practice and the Data Protection Act must also be considered by any business before it intercepts employees' communications. ----- Do businesses have to tell me if they are going to record or monitor my phone calls or e-mails? No. as long as the recording or monitoring is done for one of the above purposes the only obligation on businesses is to inform their own employees. If businesses want to record for any other purpose, such as market research, they will have to obtain your consent.
  • jm
    well that clears that up then :)
  • Jon G.
    By the way people... the Disconnections number is 0800 0188013 Just had a conversation with a chap who would not put me through to them.. as I didnt meet the criteria... as in.. not gone over my minutes... But he gave me the direct number.. I said to him... so.. you are saying that the changes are not detrimental to me.. as they dont go over my minutes.. and because they havent... its not going to.. I said.. so.. if at the end of the month i go over my minutes... will my changes be detrimental..? he said.. well i can see from past history that you wont.. I said... so who knows more about the calls im gona make.. the guy with the last 3 months figure... or the guy with the phone and the intent??? lol he still wouldnt put me thorugh... just kept on repeating himself... last time I had a conversation this stupid I was talking to a 2 year old...
  • Paul S.
    Hello all, We've spent the day quietly sifting through regulations - there's a new post on the front page of the site to have a read through. http://www.bitterwallet.com/16574/16574 We'll also be posting a guide tomorrow, for those of you who haven't cancelled and want to take further action. P
  • Kaylee
    Hi people. I just managed to cancel my contract after about 4 attempts. The call handler explained to me that I haven't made many calls over the last three months so I wouldn't be affected but I explained I'm moving out next week and will not be using a land line to make calls. She said I'd be disconnected within 24 hours! But I then asked for this code to keep my number. Can you use the code they send to transfer your number from contract to payg? I forgot to ask lol Thanks
  • Mike
    Right i spoke to a chap last week who said i would be able to cancel once i receive my text which i did today! Over the weekend i went over my minutes and i phoned up today and i was told i was not eligible! The woman "michelle" at disconnection was very rude and basicly called me a liar and that i went over my minutes on purpose as i was aware of these changes at the time i went over. She wasnt letting me speak to her team leader or supervisor. I said that in terms and conditions it doesnt say anything about being eligible and she said that i should seek legal advice. Aparently calling countries abroad (USA which is increasing) is not part of your contact and it can increase at any time! Really angry and dissapointed and now i have no free minutes left on my phone so giving them more money!
  • Jason
    Orange have rang me today after about 7 attempts of me trying to cancel and told me they would sort it out right away withing 2 mins I was free. I phoned ofcon yesterday and got a reference number off them then called the CEO? number that is floating around this site for orange and logged a complaint. they look into it and give a ruling and as they can also see your current bill if your over you mins they don't have a leg to stand on by saying you don't use your mins.
  • Karen
    Some success after yesterday's post, I rang Ofcom for my daughter and told them of the problems we have cancelling. For the record we are not after a new phone, she was only just 18 when she took the contract that still has 9 months to run ,which by the way was not what the salesman told her, and have had to pay a lot of her bills that have gone over the alloted quota and Orange keep contradicting their info on her contract anyway. Got a refernce number from Ofcom and a direct number to ring, must admit that after yesterday's fiasco she din't ring Orange until this pm. Spoke to someone ,I think that is the CEO department, when she told them she had rang Ofcom and had a ref number they changed their tune about cancelling. She was put through to disconnections and told she could cancel, they didn't take the ref number from Ofcom and said that she has to give 30 days notice so will be 10 Sept before contract ends. She did make the point it was due to t&c's and Ofcom tolld us to say that she will not have to pay a disconnection charge. So did ask the very nice lady in disconnections if she would definately be disconnected and she said yes and would cross her fingers and heart to that effect! Now wondering if this is a fob off again as doesn't sound quite right. Other people seem to be disconnected immediately not wait 30 days. Does anyone know if this is a new change today or have they also been told to wait? Thanks to bitter wallet for info to get this far.
  • scooby d.
    First of all will people please try and get their info correct. 1.Data charges are coming DOWN from a capped 1.47 per day charge to less than 60 p per day 2. it is a MINIMUM call charge that has been increased not the per minute call charge ie the first minute will now be 15 p minimum instead of 5 p, subsequent charges will be the same as before and 3. if there weren't so many greedy individual consumers taking advantage of O being truthful about changing t&c's ( unlike voda virgin and tmobile who in july changed their terms by posting a small post on their web and not informing their individual customers of their rights) then orange wouldn't be putting out all stops to try and prevent cmers taking advantage which they are< the charges are only going to make a difference on average of less than £1 per month. Yes it seems orange staff are advising different things and some are being somewhat spikey but wouldn't you be if u were concerned ur job may be at risk due to a nation of whining money grabbers
  • John K.
    Wayhay!! £rd time lucky - now ended 2 Orange contracts - they gave up without a fight at 4.30pm... I asked if they were tortured and she said yes... Would love to know how many have jumped the fence now!!
  • RossMcManus
    I just rang up before and was told to ring back after 8 as there was no cancellation people in till then so im going to ring back I actually ring the numbers that are going to change as out house phone costs a fortune to ring them ( more than it does ringing from a mobile) And my last orange bill was £54 rather than the £37 it is ment to be from ringing these numbers so I should be eligable to cancel.
  • RossMcManus
    I just rang up again and the woman on the phone told me that although i make 08 calls the call is more than 30 seconds so im not eligable so i said well i will be if i keep making them as i will be getting charged 15p a for the connection She said give me two minutes im going to check somthing then she came back to me saying that she has just seen that they are no longer increasing the call charges so it will stay at 5p
  • Jay
    Orange have pulled the plans to change the prices so its back to normal and won’t affect any of you. Good news i’m sure everyone will be happy now!
  • moaningminnie
    Good all the people who are trying to scam a new phone can't. HAHA
  • balihoi
    Yup, called this morning as contract up for renewal anyway, an moving to another provider because of receptiion issues. was advised that the changes had all been cancelled. very helpfull staff, considering the amount of grief they have probably had in the last few days.
  • John K.
    I got a call from Orange from what sounded like a very pissed off man to say that the plan to increase charges was ill-thought out and they had suspended the increases... I didnt have the heart t say I had requested 2 x PAC codes!!! Does anyone know if they will be devious and 'un-cancel' contracts which were cancelled during the mass exodous and before they scrapped the plans??
  • Ten B.
    [...] Orange cancellation saga rumbled on back on Monday – Ofcom refuted the bollocks that was being spouted by Orange’s customer service [...]
  • Boba F.
    Well I got mine cancelled on July 27th and walked away 6 months into a 24 month contract with a Touch HD. Phone was disconnected, letter received confirming cancellation and now I have an Iphone 3GS :)
  • matt
    mine has just ported over to o2 happy daYS
  • Theresa M.
    Had my phone stolen in july 2011 went into the orange shop in oldham to cancel my sim contract and the advisor advised me that he cancelled the sim contract and i should take out mobile phone contract which ' i did'. He told me all that i would pay is £26.00 which was £20 mobile phone costs and £6.00 insurance. Ihave never recieved a bill cannot access my number online because it says incorrect mobile number. My phone was barred in sep 2011 because when i contacted orange because i could not make any calls they said i went over my minutes, This was not true because i called into the orange shop and the advisor rang customer services and they said that i went over my minutes. Spoke to numerous advisors in the orange shop and customer services and not one person said that i had £15.00 from july - sim card to pay as well as £26.00 and accruing all charges. Went into the orange shop again to speak to the manager on 21/10/11 which i made an appointment to see the manager finished work early and the manager wasn't there never recieved a call from the shop to say that she has cancelled the appointment. Also i recieved paperwork re the insurance when i took out the mobile phone contract and it was never applied since 15/10/11so what have i been paying for!!! Also promised a callback from Darren at the orange shop and the manager and this has not even happened.
  • M2 I.
    Thanks for some other excellent post. Where else may anybody get that kind of information in such an ideal means of writing? I've a presentation next week, and I'm at the look for such information.

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