Littlewoods snatch back year’s worth of voucher discounts
By Paul Smith
A couple of weeks ago we received an email from a distraught customer of Littlewoods called Mary. According to Mary, the catalogue company had added £500 worth of charges to her account for goods ordered over a six month period, because she had used discount voucher codes circulated online.
Now another case has come to light, this time in the HotUKDeals forums – a member called Toratown claims to have received a phonecall yesterday from Littlewoods’ “fraud department”:
I have been using these vouchers for about a year and all was fine… now the Littlewoods Group solicitors are going to retrieve all the voucher amounts, from all of my accounts.
This has happened countless times before; a quick search of the net will reveal plenty of chatter concerning this in the HUKD forums and elsewhere online. Last year we highlighted a similar issue with Littlewoods attempting to claw back a specific discount which essentially equated to free money, and we eventually got a result for customers.
The issue from the company’s point of view goes as follows: Littlewoods states that discount vouchers are intended for specific individuals and may only be used by them, regardless of whether they appear in public forums – if a third party is found to have used them after the transaction has been agreed and the goods dispatched, then Littlewoods’ terms and conditions give them the right to retrieve the discounts back from the customer.
There are plenty of HUKD forum members who don’t necessarily agree with Littlewoods’ conduct but have in the past pointed out the dangers of using circulated vouchers; they point out that the terms and conditions for using the vouchers apply, regardless of whether a customer reads them or not; in the eyes of the law, ignorance is no excuse and customers who use voucher codes not intended for them are committing fraud.
Then there are those who believe that Littlewoods are in the wrong, both morally and legally; they say that to demand monies up to a year after a transaction is unfair on the customer, and that including a clause in the terms and conditions of a contract does not necessarily mean it has any legal standing. Others question why, after several years of this problem occurring, has Littlewoods not introduced any measures to prevent misuse of codes, such as matching specific codes to specific customers, as countless other online retailers do. These sentiments were summed up by one forum member on HUKD:
Is it possible that they might be deliberately slow in picking people up on using invalid codes – after all, how much more money can you make by sending out codes, letting thousands find them on the interweb, take in a load of orders based on apparently lower prices and then clean up 6 or 12 months later?
Just how long did they take to find these inconsistent usages? It must have been quite a while if one person has managed to build up so many. And it must be pretty bleeding obvious if you send out 1000 codes and get 10,000 people using them that something isn’t working right – so why does it take them so long to work it out?
In fact, why does a company like Littlewoods need a fraud team at all? As others have pointed out, if their systems were set up correctly to check codes against email addresses that the codes were sent to then there wouldn’t be any need.
Clearly there may be customers abusing codes through multiple use across multiple accounts, but when voucher codes intended for individuals (which Littlewoods states they are) can be published and circulated online, sometimes by annonymous sources, then there’s bound to be innocent misuse of them. Bitterwallet is looking into the matter and will get back to you shortly.
Posted in Complaints, Consumer legal June 23rd, 2009 | 45 Comments
feral trolley of the week
Did people not learn from the last time? Littlewoods are very clever, get loads of orders in, 2 months down the line when they can’t return it, collect the rest of the money, Utter, UTTER… WANK_ERS!
Fair play to them to be honest.
HUKD should ban all Littlewoods vouchers
I would rather skewer myself through both eyes with a red hot poker than order from these people.
Yep, ban them from HUKD and drop them from Quidco.
Littlewoods are the only guilty ones here, this has been ‘a problem’ for four years now. Its the only way for them to get custom. Its like buying a jumper and jeans in a sale and then getting a letter from the shopkeeper a year later asking for the discount to be paid. “I didnt say at the time of the sale but the sale was only for people with no arms or legs, it was clearly written on our T&C’s.”
“We are looking at a number of ways of ensuring this doesn’t happen again”
Littlewoods spokesman Oct 2007
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/7061767.stm
this is one of the reasons i will never ever buy anything from littlewoods or their associated companies no matter how many vouchers they send to me in the post
bunch of thieving scally cowboys
Surely most decent retails make their vouchers one use only, so the perspn it`s sent to and only that person can use it?
surely littlewoods should decide whether or not you are entitled to use the code before sending the orders out?!?!
Surely people should read their terms and conditions first and not take the piss?!
Oh wait…
People need to use them with a bit of decency the women was clearly over stepping the mark to have £500 worth back.
People are clearly abusing of the vouchers and I don’t see why they are so surprised with this retaliation.
Surely a company the size of littlewoods would have a system in place that didnt allow the misuse of vouchers, however that would cost them millions in lost sales i expect.
its like fishing with a maggot then complaining when a fish eats the maggot.
I used one of these codes recently and got charged the full amount for my wireless dongle, few emails later i got the £10 refunded back into my account (refunded yesterday) so i was happy enough but wont be using them again
While I hate Littlewoods and the rest, she has clearly been completely taking the piss.
I hope they get their money, win if it goes to court, and if she ends up homeless its only what she deserves. What a loser.
Dave Benson Phillips dont be a ‘bully’….
hahahahahahahahahahahhahhha
Everyone of these codes comes with a Government health warning! They are the swine flu of discount codes!!
If you are stupid enough not to read the terms and conditions and not pay heed to the numerous warnings given on using them then you deserve all that comes your way
They are the swine flu of discount codes!!
Surely that means there is actually very little danger of getting caught using them.
hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaaahhhah
All the noobs who kept posting the deals with voucher codes, and the even bigger noobs for buying them!!!
Good luck!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I’ve got to ask… why does HUKD allow Littlewoods vouchers to be published. There are already certain retailers here who get pulled for shady dealings in the past (Ebuyer for example). Littlewoods vouchers are clearly NOT meant to be distributed publicaly and despite countless warnings from users here people are still going to use them and get stung. Why not simply stop listing deals from them and have done with it?
I’ve ordered a few bits from Littlewoods & from Additions Direct – both times I have used a £30 off first purchase of £60 or more voucher. Do you think I’m at risk? I only placed the Additions Direct order today so if I am, I’ll be sending them back. The voucher I used from Additions was sent to me in the post. The voucher I used from Littlewoods several months ago I found on HUKD.
I won’t be ordering from any of these companies again!
of course you are Will you imbecile!
The reason HUKD do not stop these codes being published is because THEY are making cash from the subsequent purchases and possible quidco cashback … so in reality they are just as GUILTY as Littlewoods.
HaHa bunch of cheap tramps trying to swindle Littlewoods then crying about it when they try and get their money back, should be forced to pay the £500 then sent to prison for 6 months, fraud, deception and being a dirty cheap tramp
meh, it’s only £30 so I’ll risk it. They can suck my balls.
Surely if you have paid by credit/debit card and they will have no discourse to reclaim their cash.
They would not be able to take payment from the card as you would not authorise it.
If scumbag customer took the piss out of my company I’d go after them for the money…!
is this only the £30 of £60 voucher codes which are user specific or all the xx / zq codes? prices are cheap enough on some items but majority always goes back because its poorly made and always shrinks. they have gone right down since they became bigger and took over everyone else which has meant a lot less places to shop for different clothes as now all the shop direct stores have exactly the same clothes at different places (plus or minus p&p depending on who you shop with.) this new very store doesn’t really cater for my needs so another shop not to shop at. my wallet is very happy!
If u pay by card and dont have an account with them its okay, they cant claw the money back that way!
If they can claw back this money, is there an option for the consumer to reject what is effectively a price iincrease a year later and return the goods demanding a refund?
I would expect there is a case for such a thing.
Littlewood Can we have an extra £50 for that TV you ordered a year ago please.
Customer Kiss my arse you spotty faced four eyed git. Give me a refund and have the fucking TV back.
Oh really Lisa?
I think you’ll find last time that they sent an email saying that you owed them money.
The next email said that if you didn’t pay up in 7 days or something they would take you to court.
I’m afraid the Ts and Cs are pretty straight forward: If you can prove the voucher was sent to you, you can argue your case. If you found it on MSE, HUKD or vouchercodes or whatever then your effectively screwed.
TBF, they seem to be catching on these days – last time I tried to use a “New Customer” code, they said I couldn’t because there were already accounts at this address. I’m not sure if I would have ordered anyway, but there go.
I had a weird phone call from the fraud department a few weeks ago, they asked lots of questions, and then at the end said ok, and told me my next delivery should be with me soon. I didn’t think anything of it. I have accounts with Littlewoodsdirect, empire, marshall and Kays and my husband has accounts with littlewoods and additions. We have had them for ages, before I was a member of hotukdeals and before I had ever heard of codes! EmpireStores used to be a different company when I joined it I believe. They said they were checking as I had used the same credit card details on all accounts, I said thats because my husband gave me a copy of his credit card and we both have the same initial. I think maybe I’ll stop using them as this is getting silly, one minute they say it’s ok to use the codes, next they say it isn’t, they could make them account specific so easily, it’s like a pub landlord hanging outside an AA meeting, they know people will be tempted by a freebie, it’s human nature, especially as I’m a bit of a shopoholic!
when i first signed up to littlewoods kays etc, i rang the customer service to place an order, i asked if they had any discount codes for my first order, i remember the male telling me to have a look on the internet as you can find some on there and if they’re valid we’ll take them, that always led me to believe they are ok , so if they arnt valid , they wont go through?
yes i may be thick, but littlewoods have to take responsibilty here, we are human, and if we can get a bargin most will grab at the chance, doesnt make us bad, clearly they can invalidate codes when they want or make personal codes phone call only with the person with the qualifying account number as they have done in the past and present.
One think I really cant understand is why (if I have an account with them – and I guess you would need some sort of account with them for them to email me) do I get emails offering me discounts – but only if Im a new account holder? Surely they know ?
I have called to check my accounts and have been told I dont hold any active account (I have had them in the past – so they have become de-active??) but then…I get mail thru the post from my littlewoods account.
There are so many inconsistancies with this I have no idea whether Im safe or not to use them…they defo need to clean up and clarify this as it making a lot of people distrust them and scared to transact with them.
1. Dont send out code for people who already hold account – the idea that we will ‘phone a friend’ doesnt really work and only temps people to use the code for themselves.
2. If you de-activate accounts – delete all reference to them – dont send them post.
3. Have ‘reasonable’ codes that everyone can have.maybe one that builds up the more you order?
4. Be more fair to your exisiting customer base – they will be happier knowing that the occasional discount code will work and will trust you more for it. In turn they might actually recommend you to their friends.
5. Certainly dont slap people 6 to 12 month down the line with a bill. This is totally the wrong way of building your business – the pay now – refund discount later is the time to check PROPERLY the code use and contact the person then – at least they have the oportunity to return good if the code doesnt apply.
I could probably go on but I think you hear what Im saying….
When you place an order using a discount code with one of these companies the full amount is always initially taken from your card. The value of the discount voucher is refunded later. From an Additions email:
“If you have paid for your order with a credit or debit card then we will process your payment in two stages. First we will charge your card with the full price of
the order then we will refund your card with the value of the discount. Please note that the payment and refund may not occur simultaneously but the
refund will be made no later than when your order is despatched.”
They take the full amount and refund the applicable discount. Their “mistake”, their problem.
Maxill you have hit the nail on the head there. “at least they have the oportunity to return good if the code doesnt apply.”
That is exactly why they wait so long, so you cannot return the goods. It how they operate and have been doing it for years now.
[...] to your card.. but please be careful.. I wont be using any codes that aren’t meant for me anymore http://www.bitterwallet.com/littlewo…iscounts/13903 [...]
[...] over a six month period, because she had used discount voucher codes circulated online ……….. http://www.bitterwallet.com/littlewo…iscounts/13903 [...]
[...] over a six month period, because she had used discount voucher codes circulated online ……….. http://www.bitterwallet.com/littlewo…iscounts/13903 [...]
The way the company works reminds me of drugs dealers. They send a voucher that is only valid for new account holders to old account holders, knowing they will give it to friends, and knowing they can claw it back. They send 100 vouchers out and accept orders from 10,000 people knwoing they can claw it back. And then when their reputation is destroyed, they change the company name to VERY.
They peddle vouchers like a drug dealer peddles drugs, and the buyers behave like drug addicts taking them knowign they should refuse.
As blameworthy as the customers are, surely the drug dealer who deliberately creates the situation for entrapment is far more guilty?
bear in mind littlewoods that should a code not be found then theres a good chance your customers would not order the product in the first place so you win by them using the code as they wouldnt buy it otherwise! especially when theres inflation increases between your 2 sites which should be made illegal because your respone was should you use the interest free site the charges are higher to reflect this! thus making your interest free statements and free postage/returns statements invalid as the price difference does often not reflect this
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So does anyone know outcome of this?
Does anyone know the outcome of this?