DVLA act unlawfully whilst losing your letters and blaming you for itMay 5th, 2010 • 38 Comments
Many companies act like complete arseholes when correspondence goes missing. The amount of times I haven’t been sent a letter or the postman has eaten it (or whatever they do with them), to be then chased up with a grouchy phonecall has gone past the point of trying to remember a number.
However, most companies will concede and sort things out with you whilst you’re on the phone. Not quite the case with the DVLA who’s off-road notification system has been described as “a shambles” and “legally unenforceable” and in “administrative chaos” according to The Reg.
Two court cases suggest that the DVLA has been acting unlawfully and, despite what it thinks, doesn’t have the power to push motorists around like they do.
In one case, the DVLA was seeking a judgement against James Collins on the grounds that he had failed to notify it when took his vehicle off the road (SORN). However, Mr Collins had indeed notified them and in fact, it was the DVLA who had dropped a bollock by losing his details. The judge agreed that it wasn’t Mr Collins’ fault and he shouldn’t have to stump up the cash to send correspondence by recorded delivery or any proof of posting for that matter.
If that was the case, and us plebs had to send everything by secure means, then the same would need to be required of any organisation we dealt with and, of course, they wouldn’t want that as their postage costs would go through the roof.
In another similar case, Duncan Peck had a row with the DVLA over lost paperwork. The DVLA tried it on and said that Mr Peck should’ve rung them if he didn’t receive any acknowledgement from them. Once again, the judge in question sided with the public saying that the DVLA have no statutory power requiring anyone to ring them.
This of course, doesn’t stop the DVLA sending out bailiffs should anyone try to cross swords with it. These rulings could well be a serious blow to the organisation.
The simple fact of the matter is that the DVLA do lose mail and correspondence and are still seemingly happy to send out debt collection agencies even while complaints are under investigation.
This simply isn’t good enough from a company that pockets somewhere in the region of £10m per year from penalty notices.
A spokesman for the DVLA: “The DVLA does not impose any requirements for customers to obtain proof of posting or use recorded delivery in their dealings with us. However, and this is a key point, the onus is on the customer to ensure their off-road notification is delivered to DVLA.”
“With reference to non-receipt of acknowledgement letters by customers, there is no legal obligation on the customer to contact DVLA if they do not receive their acknowledgement letter. However, and another key point, we do advise customers to contact us if this happens so that we can confirm if their notification has been delivered to us or advise them otherwise how to comply”.
There are calls to have a more open and transparent appeal system concerning the DVLA as, currently, they are self-regulatory. With these court cases and apparently lack of sympathy for genuine mistakes, the DVLA could lose the support of all motorists.
You tell me this the day after I post my certificate to them…
So we can ignore them totally and claim they haven’t sent anything?
This happened to me early last year. They ‘Claimed’ to not have received my SORN, then fined me £60 or something.
No amount of telling them they’d lost my SORN that was definately, 100% sent in, got me anywhere. Perhaps I’ll be able to claim it back from them still…
Do any of you people complaining and whinging have internet access?
SORN statements can be submitted online.
Those fuckers lost my sisters passport which was sent via recorded delivery and I could see that somebody signed for it.
They claimed that she sent only a photocopy and could not be arsed to do anything about it.
A couple of years ago a load of bikers sent their licences in to be updated with address changes, points changes and the like; they got returned with the entitlement to ride motorbikes missing, claimed they knew nothing about it and several people had to retake their motorbike tests. I wanted to update a change in name after I got married and they refused unless I trusted them with our original marriage certificate (photocopies were refused). Needless to say I told them to fuck off; two of my friends have worked there, and both of them happily admit that the majority of staff are fucking useless.
@ Tom Prickering: what’s the difference between “can” and “must”?
Rings so true.
They lost my letters on two occassions relating to two different cars!
Guess what I wrote again & to my surprise they lost that too!!
Bloody useless twats.
Postie brings letter to office -> open letter -> give to correct twat to record -> send conformation -> job done.
Can it really be that easy?
I actually took my documents to my local office. They said 3-5 working days. 3 weeks later still nothing. Called DVLA swansea who said would call me. 5 days later still no call. Went back to the Local Office where I handed over my documents and they said they had been lost in the internal post !!.
They then said I needed to obtain more original documents to resubmit as they dont accept copies. !!!!
What a mess
i submitted my dvla application at9april.2010. imy application rejected due to error .I AGAIN POSTED IT AT 19APRIL2010. BUTT STILL NOT RECIEVE MY DVLA AFTER PASSING ONE MONTH.1ST TIME I CALLED THEY SAID WE RECOMEND 5V MORE DAYS.AFTER PASSING 8T DAYS THEY AGAIN SAID THAT WE RECOMEND MORE 3RE DAYS. MY MANY IMPORTANT WORKS HAVE STOP DUE TO DVLA DELAYTION.
WHAT,S GOING ON
Has the DVLA been given draconian powers over the motoring public
This large inefficient government organisation based in Swansea not only collects revenue from the legal requirements of owning and driving a vehicle but generates it’s own by the selling of number plates for instance or by imposing fines
Now I am fully aware of the need to have strong laws in place to deter the illegal road users and of the responsibility motorists have to inform the DVLA of any changes, but shouldn’t this work both ways surely the organisation has a duty to reciprocate and provide a fast and efficient service, after all we are not only customers but voters and shareholders as such and this whole shebang is run on our behalf by our government
I have searched various sources and nowhere can I find the mandate that allows the DVLA to issue fines, back payments maybe but that’s a grey area too
As far as the law in our country stands only The Courts have the power to impose or levy fines that can be legally collected, I understand that last year the DVLA collected over £3 million from the use of fines————-Surely this is illegal a blatant fraud a total misuse of power, have we regressed back to the dark ages, there is not even any appeal procedure in place
So what happens when one falls foul of an error created by this unyielding organisation , as far as I can tell through research you pay up or try to force them to take you to court, which by the way rarely happens as they lose nearly every case with the judgement against them naming the fact that they do not have these powers in the first place
I have concerns about their selling of data to outside private companies, under the Data Protection Act a compelling reason has to be given before any information can be passed on and I’m not sure a cheque for £2.50 is a compelling reasonable request as meant under the act
Logging on to their site I was surprised to be offered the chance to win a car through the selling of personal number plates division————er is this something the staff do on the side does everybody bung some money in a tin out of the goodness of their hearts to pay for the car and increase revenue for the government——No I cannot believe the DVLA is behind it they are a government body not a private concern who can throw money about willy nilly ————-or can they?
These are just a few of my concerns. I will delve into the seizing of vehicles, the on the spot fines (sorry payments) that let you drive on still and the link between the Police and the DVLA officers at another time
Just a thought if a DVLA officer ( and god knows what one of them is) has all the power claimed to be invested in them why are they always accompanied by the Police who themselves seem to be yet another division of the DVLA
DVLA insisted on seeing the original copies of two 1930′s car registration documents in order to issue new documents to retain the two old numbers for two old cars I had bought. They lost them, first denying they had ever had them. They now say they are ‘at a loss’ to know how they came to lose them but hey, nothing they can do now. BUT they now say I can still have the two registrations WITHOUT seeing the original documents. Result: Original 1930′s documents lost or shredded, two new registrations promised (not actually materialised yet) two devalued vintage cars.
Why on earth would I be upset.
well what a game we have been pushed from pillar to post no one seems to know what has happened to our doc either .Garage says they sent them DVLA say they have not recieved them,but lady at swansea says she has sent them so looks like royal mail has got them !!!!!!!!!!!! NOT.phoned 3 times today .guess what 3 different answers .I give up
I took DVLA to Court for revoking my driving licence with out any medical evidence.
Dvla failed to turn up twice at court, the court went in my favour & said DVLA had to return my licence.
When I contacted the DVLA to see where my licence was they said that they had not received any paper work from the courts at any time.
So they are saying theat the courts did not post out any mail to them to attend court or thet the case went in my favour, it seems they must have a black hole some where within the DVLA full of mail has my solicitor had also said that he had posted mail regrding my case, this also went down the blck hole, the best thing is they say I must have a medical to get my licence back, yet they took with out any midical evidence only on the say so from a by stander at the scene of my accedent saying I had a blck out.
He must of rang them with that info, he could not have sent a letter as it seem’s the post man do not know where the DVLA building is , it’s that big building In Swansea mate.
They just seem to be a law to thier self & think they do not have to listen to the courts
Form V5C, another waste of time and effort. I sold a van, sent off the form for change of ownership. Forgot all about it till nine months later a letter from DVLA saying that they are going to fine me for failure to notify them of change of ownership. They won’t listen when you tell them you don’t recall who you sold it to or the address. Apparently the onus is on me to tell them within two weeks of sale that I have not received confirmation from them.
Well, three exchanges later trying to tell them that I don’t have the details they want, they have decided to take me to court (got the letter today confirming prosecution). I sent that bloody form off to them when I sold the car! Who the hell wouldn’t I when I am legally held responsible for speeding, parking and any other fine imposed on that vehicle. None of that happened with me, luckily, but they are insisting that I didn’t send that V5C for that vehicle when I sold it.
Out of principle I am NOT going to pay any fine for their cock up. As far as I’m concerned they have cocked up and lost it. If I do it will be tantamount to admitting an offence and if I don’t, the fine goes up from £35 for early payment, to £50 if I don’t pay within two weeks, to now, £1000 court imposed fine. That, as far as I’m concerned is legalised extortion and I will not be blackmailed without being dragged kicking and screaming. I sent that form off and I have to pay a fine for their incompetence?
I’ll keep you posted about the court case when it happens but jeez, they have really got my back up now and I won’t let it drop. Someone should take these idiots and knock some sense into their heads. Maybe a press or TV doc about this extortion scam they claim is legal. Any takers?
I’m digging my heels in and preparing myself to be used as a scapegoat. They seem determined to do me over one way or another.
My partner is in the same predicament as yourself, he had the first attempt set aside because the DVLA was sending details to him at the wrong address, now they are trying again, court date is 30 May. Would really love to hear how you get on. This is silly that they are wasting so much money in taking people to court for these issues.
DVLA have just taken me to court over failure to notify them i had sold my motorbike i sold the vehicle in august 2010 the log book got lost in a home move (my fault) but when phoning them i told DVLA i was selling bike and what i needed to do upon them saying a letter with my name, address, date, signature and his name, addres,s date, signature would be acceptable so saying this i proceeded and sold bike i sent the letter in august 2010 then phoned in sept /oct to check they said they had not recieved it and i would need to send it again i sent the original straight away thinking theres no way they can lose 2 so didnt phone back or gave it a second thought… i moved in 2008 sept i changed license address mar 2010 after 10 years of owning photo one… bearing this in mind feb 2012 i recieved a letter stating i owed fine for failure to notify DVLA of change of owner plus failing to attend court in mar 2011. i went to court today to do a statutory declaration because they admitted sending the letters notifying me there was a fine to my previous address in 2008 even though they had processed my change of address in mar 2010 and sent 3 fines out to 2008 address between 2010 dec- 2011 mar but sent final letter to new address stating baliffs would be coming to collect they are absolute wankers the fines was thrown out but the judge said the proceedings can go ahead continuing from original court date ive now got to go to court again in april to prove ive sent letter this is a joke who after 2 years keeps any info or other i only have a witness who helped me deliver bike who saw the person sign date and address the letter i prepared so any ideas on how i handle this would be grateful cant believe they are trying this on when so many are driving illegally
We appreciate you sharing this article post. Keep writing.
My son phoned the DVLA the other day to say he had not had new address paperwork come through on two mopeds he has. They have appeared to have gone missing. He has already agreed a £40 scrap with a chap who will buy them from him but now the DVLA say he must pay £25 for each new log book!!! Nothing can be done apparently apart from him to be out of pocket.
Its illegal to wrongly space out a vehicle registration but the Police appear to be turning a blind eye is this because the DVLA are making millions from selling something that they know would be of little revenue if the Police cracked down on illegally spaced number plates.
same as a couple of posts on here, sold the bike over 18 months ago just got a penalty notice for not notifying change of ownership, I remember sending the logbook off the same day as the sale, I dont remember the name or address of the new keeper or the exact date of sale and have notified them of this but follow up letter recieved yesterday stating this isnt acceptable and it looks like they will push this further, so BRING IT ON I am not giving in to a fine for somebody elses incompetence especially after reading this thread.
Fuck the DVLA !!
I had a car scrapped years ago- sent off docs and forgot about it, moved address.
Checked my credit file some years later and the bastards had given me a CCJ for £100.
Went to court to get the CCJ set aside and lost!! Judge said I should have sorted it sooner!!
CCJ on my file for 6 years!!
I have just bought a car with v5c/2 new keeper slip the details were crossed out so I put my details in took it together with my mot and insurance only to be told because details had been altered they would not tax the car . I informed dvla they told me I would have to send the form to dvla I am constantly on the phone to them and now told I could have taken information to my local dvla office and got road not I am stuck with out a car for 4 to 6 weeks so I could be unemployed. I an constantly been told different thinks when talking to dvla I am so ped off with them. Anyone got any ideas.
I too have almost been the victim off DVLA. I sold my car back in December 2011, sent off the log book the same day and moved away on the 23rd January 2012. Their first letter off failing to notify off a new keeper was apparently sent to me on the 16th January. I never recieved this so lived life as normal until October when I received a letter stating I had missed court twice and my fine with court fees was in the region off £400! I called them and they said they had been trying to track me down as they were aware I had changed address but did not know where until I appeared on the electoral roll. Anyway I went to court and signed a stat dec, stating I had sent in all the information required by law and not off the DVLA. It was accepted, all fees and court hearing thrown out. I was told the DVLA may not stop there. I got another letter from asking me to pay £35 or else face court, I replied that I’d already won court using the “interpretation act” and explained once more that I had sent all my documents to them and nothing left to send. Today I received yet another fine off £35 or court with a letter explaining that the “interpretation act” to them is not sufficiant and that only hard evidence is.
I have replied stating I will see them in court or else I fear this will literally never end.
We recieved a letter from DVLA dated 31/1/13 saying they are revoking driving license as of 01/02/13 as they did not hear regarding a letter sent from them on 17/12/12. We have been on the phone to them twice yesterday and once today telling them we have not recieved this letter (maybe due to the christmas rush) and why we are held resp0onsible for their/royal mail incompetence? Also, whilst we ensured that our correspodense to them was sent by recorded delivery as any hiccups on our part and they threaten with license revocation, why they did not ensure the same dilligence? DVLA said we should have phoned them as is stated in their covering letter that if we do not here from them within a month we have to chase them up! The thing is, unless they use secret ink, nowhere in their letters do they say that! They have the audacity to then tell us that we should have still chased it up!
They will not take responsibility for undelivered mail sent from them, Royal Mail will not take responsibility saying we do not track 1st and 2nd class letters and it is my husband who is disabled and needs his car to save aload of extra hassle holding down a full time job, who loses out!
We have not had any sympathy from DVLA and our conversations with them have been thoroughly unhelpful as license can not be un-revoked, we should have done the chasing up and now we have to fill out the DG1 form explaining all in writing and their mess can take up to 8 weeks to sort out!
DVLA have become power hungry, irresponsible, useless lot of time wasters. They also lied that they can be contacted until 7:00pm in order to take calls from the working public, except their automated phone system told us at 6:30pm to call during working hours of 9 till 5:30!
From the above experiences it seems that this irresponsible organisation exists to loot/make miserable the day to day lives of hard working people or fight trying.
My sympathys to all of above and may we all succed in bringing DVLA to justice. I can’t believe this is happening when the west prides itself in the democracy it purports to live under.
Waited 7 weeks for my car tax refund,sent 20th Dec 2012 rang today and was told they never received any paperwork was on the phone for 30 minutes and they charged me £20.00 for a replacement paper driving licence.They said ‘Royal mail have lost it not DVLA’.
I sent away for my first provisonal licence almost 3 weeks ago with every document I had and they’ve now just told me they have received nothing and I’m starting to panic after reading this, does anyone know what I should do or what they’ve most likely did with my documents? Thanks!
After a transfer of ownership of my car to my partner in sept 2012 I sent off the V5c with all the details and gave the green slip to my partner. The tax was due on 1st Jan 13 but with post office shut went down the first day it was open after new year. The post office refused to tax the car with a valid mot and insurance certificate accompanied with the green v5c slip. I contacted dvla and told them I had sent of the v5c for change of ownership, which they say they never received so I asked them if I could place a SORN until the matter was sorted out. I was then told I couldn’t place a SORN as I had informed them I was no longer the owner of the car, so my partner called them to place SORN and was told she couldn’t because she wasn’t the registered keeper! A few days later I received the fine for not placing a SORN on the vehicle I do not own. I wrote a cheque for the reduced £40 (If paid within 7 days) and sent it off along with an appeal letter asking them not to cash the cheque until my appeal was heard and an application for a new log book in my partners name. They cashed the cheque and returned the application asking for another £25 for the new log book. This has now taken until mid-March by the way and the car has been off road since then leaving us with one car to travel to two jobs 20 miles apart, meaning I have to do this round trip putting an extra couple of hours on my working day as well as the increased petrol usage. Now in June I receive a letter stating that an application for a V5c has been received by somebody for a vehicle registered in my name (my partners application) and that I need to contact them urgently. I contacted them and explained the whole sorry story and was told that I need to sign the back of the letter and send it back to them and that a log book would be produced within a week and that I would probably receive a fine for not notifying them that I was no longer the keeper of the vehicle!!!!
The DVLA are a joke, although this is not a surprise as every dealing I have had with government agencies (don’t get me started with the CSA) have opened my eyes to the lack professionalism, mis-management and incompetence that seems to be the norm with these idiots. An independent inquiry needs to be done, not an internal one, and those in charge need to be brought to task and fired. If they worked for a private company they would have been sacked a long time ago, the management are quite happy not managing and the poor souls who you speak to are not trained and don’t know how to deal with a problem because of a lack of basic training. Obviously they don’t get paid enough to worry or care about the problems they are dealing with.
When Dvla try to screw you for not sending something, it is upto them to prove that you didnt send it not upto you to prove that you did, I would appeal through the courts everytime, ive won against them 4 times now
to my suprise, I have received a debt recovery letter on behalf of the DVLA for a vehicle sold 09/12/2009 16.50 hrs!
I owned the vehicle for appx 7 days, never got a V5 on it and called the DVLA and told them the vehicle had been scrapped!
four years latter they are trying to do me for not declaring sorn!
obviously I have e-mailed the DVLA and phoned them, they do not seem to want to rectify this.
I have had to call the debt recovery agency and request that they take me to court as no one actualy wants to listen!
fortunatly I am a child hood friend of counciler Peck who is mentioned in the above article and has had simular expeariance with the DVLA.!
To all those looking to go take on the DVLA best of luck. Sold my motorbike, sent in the V5 to Swansea to register the new keeper and left it there. Job done. Or so i thought. I then recieved a letter from them stating that as i hadn’t sent them the V5 they were going to fine me. So i rang them to say yes i had and can you please check. Nothing heard until i recieved a letter from my local court informing me that they were going to fine me and what did i have to say about it. Obviously didn’t put down what i would like to have said so remained polite and informed them that the V5 had been sent and had also contacted the DVLA. Guess what? Recieved a £250 fine. Nice. NOT. Refused to pay it. Why should i have to pay for their incompetence and ignorance in refusing to check their own system. Courts must be in the pay of the DVLA as they took the DVLA’s side and issued an arrest warrant plus costs. The DVLA needs to sort it’s self out, after reading through different forums it would appear i’m not on my own in this. To say i’m slightly pissed off is an under statement.
googled dvla lost documents, as both mine and my partner vehicle documents vanished in the post, sent separately chances of this happening To both of us? Hence why I did a search. I’ve sold my car on but my partner now has to pay for his to be changed. Can’t believe dvla are still getting away with this and looking at the posts , they have been using the post office as a scape goat for some time!
I have sent my driving licence to be changed with all the documents needed. 10 weeks later I am still waitting. I am going to see a solicitor tomorrow as I think they have lost my dicuments all together. I am at risk of loosing my job and without passport I am loosing my holiday next week. They dont care. Useless people.
This is brilliant reading, as I now know I’m not alone in my thoughts as to what a bunch of wankers the majority of dvla are. I have just spoken with my local mp who has agreed to pass on my particular case to the parliamentary ombudsman as I have kept copies of all correspondence with the nationally hated dvla.. and was taken to court eventually after 2 years of nonsense..which was great as I couldn’t afford to take dvla to court so I had to sit out their nonsense and even after telephone calls and letters being sent via recorded delivery they still insisted I had not had any correspondence with them..twits complete and utter twits..my phone statements showed to the dvla prosecutor along with letters that I had been in contact with dvla..case was thrown out..thankyou dvla for all the stress you caused..shame that the dvla employees weren’t in court to answer for their incompetent actions and made personally liable for their incompetence..but I suppose they get bonuses for every extra ill gotten financial gain they make..
I have just had a letter from West Midlands Finance Unit saying there is a war rent out for my arrest for not paying a £305.00 fine for not sending my logbook which I did. This was so long ago I can’t even remember when I sold my bike. How do I get these money grabbing w*****s off my back?. Any help would be much appreciated. .
I bought a car in October and it was an insurance rite off but fixed, it came with just short of a month tax, after that I had the car VIC checked and sent off for a change of name on logbook and tax alongside a cheque for 102 pounds, which after four weeks and them telling me different things like I could tax at postoffice but couldn’t do, they have been rude to me and told me to resent applications with another cheque and cancel original, but as to my surprise cheque has been cashed yet not a thing has been done with my applications, they say I have to wait to be phoned with info, yet it could take another week, I work 20 miles away and my son lives that far too, surly it’s theft if money is taken and nothing done about my applications, what shall I do? Cheers chris
I have been in a headlong debate with the DVLA regarding my motorcycle entitlement. Got a new license after losing my old paper one, no entitlement on new license. All I keep hearing is we need to see your pass certificate or a copy of your old license. Pass cerificate sent to DVLA in 1987, forgot to copy old license before loseing it. I have a letter for my insurance company saying that that can validate that they saw my license, but not good enough. Just asked for a SAR, should be interesting to see just how little information they have on me. They are the most unhelpful people I have ever met, they just dont want to help in any way.
When dealing with the DVLA use a scanner/photocopier to create a paper copy of whatever you send to them. Have a friend sign and witness the paper copy as a fair and accurate copy of the documents enclosed in the envelope addressed to the DVLA. Post the envelope from a Royal Mail post office and ask for a Certificate of Posting. Retain your copies in a safe place for at least five years.
If you send an email to the DVLA “cc” a copy to your friend and have him/her sign a printed copy.
Create a full list of the date and time of any letter/call you make/receive from the DVLA. It is useful when you have the inevitable argument with them. Make sure to note the date of their correspondence and also the date when you actually receive the document. They use second class mail to keep their costs down regardless of the cost to the public.